SyMenu Forum

Gianluca

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06/02/2024 Topic: Cleaning up the program categories Gianluca Administrator	I would prefer maintaining the one level structure, shortening and, if necessary, merging the current category labels. This is because we have a structure, made up of hundreds of SPS, that already works this way. BTW the very moment I changed a category, nothing really happened. The SyMenu suite remains exactly as it is today because the category field is not a closed field. The category collection I included in the SPS Builder is only a suggestion and the editor can write whatever he thinks is more appropriate. Even during an SPS update the editor can use a category that is no more in the collection. For this reason the transition to the new taxonomy will be extremely slow.
06/02/2024 Topic: Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? Gianluca Administrator	We have a problem, a big one. When SyMenu was only a simple stand alone program, knowing its users was not an important thing. Today, thanks to the SPS technology, SyMenu has become a hub for portable programs. And the conditions have changed, a lot. Every single day there is a relevant pressure to this web site because thousands of SyMenu call home to know if a new program definition is available and eventually (almost every day) to download it. There are also minor APIs related to the SyMenu version checking, updating and other actions. The problem here is that every web site has limits on its resources like bandwidth, number of visits, server RAM... The second problem is the burden to maintain the SyMenu suite is increasing week by week. One year ago I decided not to increase my already large collection of SPS. Despite this decision, today I am at 700, and there are editors with more than 100 that means they are full too. It's a big problem because SPS is a fantastic technology and theoretically allows me and the others volunteers to index not hundreds but thousands of programs, but, again, it's a resource problem: my time, the editors' time. The last problem is that I have no idea who is benefiting this fantastic system and, above all, how many SyMenu users really are. Since every SyMenu installation should be identified by a unique and anonymous GUID (see SyMenuConfig.xml, identity node) I carried out some investigations to infer the numbers and I discovered that, supposedly, more than 3.000 users (!!!) are hiding behind three or four GUID. It's a conservative estimate based on the different geographical area from where the calls with those particular GUID arrive... so at least 3.000 users or four ubiquitous persons. This situation it's probably caused by some third party editors that distribute SyMenu and create a configuration with the same GUID for all their users. The SyMenu customization is allowed but I always explain that the configuration node identity needs to be left blank. These are the problems. Now let's go with the solutions. The only way I have to count the users is preventing everyone from downloading the definitions without a login. If you already have a user register on the forum you can use that one, otherwise create a new user and wait because the next SyMenu version will force everyone to be recognizable. And this is for the fantastic four: don't even think of creating a user linked to dozens of SyMenu because these kind of users will be automatically banned. Naturally to download the definitions you need to use the last SyMenu version because I'll lock every direct download (yes I have this one too.......) or download with old SyMenu versions. Sorry guys, but this situation is negatively impacting the entire project. Naturally if you have something to say, this is the right place.
07/02/2024 Topic: Cleaning up the program categories Gianluca Administrator	Yes, sure. If there's a clear correlation among the two groups I can create a batch process to change the old categories with the new ones. Unless an old category splits in two or three new ones but since we are going in the opposite direction I think it could be done. After that there will be a problem with the SPS status because all of them will result as updated. But after a while the situation will normalize.
07/02/2024 Topic: Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? Gianluca Administrator	scentse wrote: I imagine work on this project began long before I discovered it. 2002! scentse wrote: Giver the time/effort poured into developing SPS & SyMenu, there clearly exists a strong sense of ownership protection surrounding it. Once a user call me the "benevolent dictator"... well there's only one person in this world that deserves this title and it's not me, but the sense of protection you mention it's clearly what drives my actions and decisions. scentse wrote: Sometime back, I asked about open-sourcing the project, but it was shot down. SyMenu code is already on GitHub in a private repository. In the past three people asked to collaborate, but after I opened the repository they disappeared. So the code is closed because nobody expressed a real interest in it. SPS instead is an open format. I shared the schema with whoever wants and asked for help from whoever wants to add new SPS. Today there are a dozen SPS editors active in the project but people go and rarely come. What I think is the problem is not my approach to openness, it's about the requirements I ask to the collaborators that are probably too pretentious. Regarding the SPS editors I ask for their time (a lot), expertise, reliability, trust, and long time commitment. Regarding the code dev I ask them to be top programmers, seriously dedicated to the project. And I ask all of this for free, because the project is entirely freeware. And probably this is its worst weakness or, at least, the real reason I can't expand it as I would because of the lack of resources. scentse wrote: For instance, could the definition list database be decoupled, compiled, & stored on Github? The definition list DB is a simple collection of xml files. Text files. They are already shared with the world because if you open your [SyMenu]\ProgramFiles\SPSSuite\SyMenuSuite\_Cache folder you'll find a zipped file with the entire list of the SPS inside. There's even a button in SyMenu to open the SPS for every program included in the definitions. The problem on the editing side it's not about the place where the SPS are published but the persons that collaborate to publish them. The editors are strongly committed, really expert on it, but very few. And GitHub is not a collaborators multiplicator.
12/02/2024 Topic: Custom apps folder? Gianluca Administrator	The point is not to have the SPSFolder as a parent but to have an exclusive folder where SyMenu can manage the SPS Apps. To be clear, theoretically I can define D:\SPS as the home SPS folder. But what Frank asked for was to mix his own apps with the SPS apps in the same folder. And it's impossible. The SPS home folder must be managed by SyMenu exclusively.
12/02/2024 Topic: A new approach to the installation of apps Gianluca Administrator	sl23 wrote: My only criticism is the colour of the blue, it blends with the tick too much You're right. It'll be changed in the final release. sl23 wrote: [tooltip for combining links and descriptions] Another option would be to have a clickable icon to the left... Well it could be but before I have to test it and see it. Sometimes I have a stroke of genius and when I implemented it shows as a bunch of crap. Other times a bad idea reveals to be very practical and comprehensible...
12/02/2024 Topic: Cleaning up the program categories Gianluca Administrator	scentse wrote: I'd started a spreadsheet with the current categories in one column with the proposed new category name in another column. Before continuing the process, I wanted to ensure this was an adequate manner to conduct the process. A spreadsheet is a perfect way to manage the categories and I like old/new columns. When it is ready you can copy and paste everything on a message in this thread so we can share with anybody else interested. Then I can replace the new category in SPS Builder.
12/02/2024 Topic: Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? Gianluca Administrator	A lot of considerations and ideas are starting to flow here. Thanks guys. @sl23 as you correctly say, I automated a lot of the checking process for SPS so it's not a big burden to check everything. The real burden would be to discern among what needs to be checked daily and what probably needs to be checked less often, i.e. to manage the SPS in two different ways. The only different process I apply today is for abandonware that is no longer checked at all. But the real problem here is not the apps that me and the other editors have to check. It's the apps we can't include in the suite for lacking resources. As I already said, SPS is a very powerful technology and we can reach 5.000 with no problem. And beyond this number it's SyMenu that would have difficulty managing the items, not the SPS itself. The problem is to spread the SPS wings for real. @sl23 wrote: I really do find it strange that so many Developers of software aren't interested in adding a simple update to an SPS The strangest thing is that they don't understand that adding their own apps to SyMenu is not a help for SyMenu but it's for themselves. The apps included on the SyMenu suite have a larger audience and an automatic update system that the majority of freeware software don't have. scentse wrote: I hadn't realized .sps was open. Sort of nullifies my thoughts that you were wanting to perhaps license or sell the format. I want to be able to feed SPS as it deserves, to expand the project, to grow. Today I'm stuck because of a lack of resources, mainly time and people, to devote to the project. And if I need to convert SyMenu into a payware app as @sl23 suggested, to move on, I'll do it. SPS is open and stays open. If someone wants to use it for a different project he can do it. If anything will ever be sold here it'll be the service I'm dispensing with my time, with the SyMenu ecosystem, with the project reliability and continuity. @scentse thank you for your thoughts regarding the lack of traction SyMenu has. You are perfectly right. Differently from chocolatey or PortableApps, SyMenu has never been well perceived outside its own community and the reason for this it's a mystery I've never solved. Try to read this posts and if you like let me know what do you think https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=818 https://portableapps.com/comment/252017#comment-252017 https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=105572
16/02/2024 Topic: Cleaning up the program categories Gianluca Administrator	I'm a bit confused here. The present situation is something like this: You can read every line as a super category and a specialized one (parent - children). It's not different from the MajorG organization apart from the fact that every group has been expanded. If you think the super category can be useful, I agree with you. If you think the super category can be deleted, I agree with you. The important thing is that your choice makes sense and is consistent. In my opinion the rework should have multiple targets: 1) eliminate duplications. For example "Internet - FTP clients" and "Internet - FTP servers" could be condensed as "Internet - FTP" because the program's descriptions will be enough to discern between one and the other and the unique category won't be too crowded. Or "Internet" super category and "Internet - Miscellaneous" can be joined together in "Internet" because a super category can accept an entry; 2) meaning improvement. For example as a user I don't have an idea on what "Internet - Media Clients" means. Probably can contain tools to stream videos and music to the client (Spotify, Netflix). So could it be best named "Internet - Streamers"? 3) eliminate useless entries. For example "Internet - Offline Browsers " could be related to tools like WinHTTrack and Cyotek WebCopy that are technically offline browsers. If you see their real SPS categories, the editors classified them respectively as "Internet" and "Internet - Miscellaneous". It means the entry is useless or not very understandable. And IMHO every category that potentially can host less than 10 programs (available worldwide, not the program we already have in the suite) can be deleted.
19/02/2024 Topic: Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? Gianluca Administrator	sl23 wrote: Subscription type charges tend to put people off. Go look at Akai unofficial MPC forum and search for subscription. One guy suggested it and every other user was against it! If I'm not wrong, the suggestion in Akai forum was about subscription for bug fix and software further improvements. And I totally agree with the opponents. SyMenu, as you correctly asserted, is and remains a free tool. The management of the thousand programs instead requires more resources and should be the service you are asked to pay for. It's not similar to the proposal for Akai but it's the same logic behind the streaming services: you access a continuously changing collection of movies, you pay to sustain the development. Naturally the price should be much less than your supposed 20€ (per year), maybe 12€ per year? One Euro per month? Anyway all this conversation is premature and useless with no affordable data on the SyMenu users. For that reason I'm developing a login system to access the SPS Manager. This way I'll start to know how many users are really using the SPS thing and taking consequent decisions. The login will be free for all and, if you already have it, you can use the same credentials you use for this forum. The login won't be too annoying because you login the first time and then the system will remember you until you explicitly logout. If you have more than a SyMenu installation you can use the same credentials for all of them. There's no limit to it. I want to count the users, not the installations. And I'm really curious to see how many users will pop up from the 3.000 different installations currently hidden behind a single ID. As soon as I am ready to release you'll have other details. There's another possible outcome from the login thing. If I discover that the SPS users are too few, I'll close the entire project. My boost in all these years has always been the conviction SyMenu was useful for a lot of people. As I asserted more than once, in my mind, SyMenu is a sort of time economizer. With this project I help people to spare time and to dedicate that time to more productive, funny, useful activities. The claim could be: SyMenu helps you to stay with your family, more! But to be really useful the community must be wide enough. Let's see.
19/02/2024 Topic: Cleaning up the program categories Gianluca Administrator	scentse wrote: I'm certain everyone agrees that 255 categories is too many. No doubt on it. Now that the job is taking shape, if you want any help with it, you can load the Excel in a Google sheet and share it with me. This way I can give my contribution, Google sheet preserve the versions, and we can comment every change there. And if you (and sl23) agree we could add him too. As you noted he's a really smart person and has a clear vision of the entire project... Well, he's been helping SyMenu since... I don't even remember but it's been years... Think about the sl23 user ID is 208...
21/02/2024 Topic: Cleaning up the program categories Gianluca Administrator	sl23 wrote: 208? How many are there? Today we are 730
04/03/2024 Topic: Cleaning up the program categories Gianluca Administrator	Well the SPS main categories are 16 so not so distant from your setup. Why don't you two share your 10/12 categorie names? This way I can check if at least the naming we are currently using for the root categories are good or not.
08/03/2024 Topic: SyMenu 8.01 Gianluca Administrator	Dear users, since I'm a person of his word, this new SyMenu version carries a new considerable feature: you have to login to access the app suites. To understand the reason for this news, please read this post: here https://www.ugmfree.it/Forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 The other relevant feature is a great redraw for the app grid. I'm really interested in knowing what you think about this new feature, so, please, be my guest.
08/03/2024 Topic: SyMenu 8.01 Gianluca Administrator	I don't know precisely how many users hide behind those few ID codes that should be uniques. What I know is that those "four people" usually update their suites from 3.000 places worldwide in the same day. Is Christ back on earth?
08/03/2024 Topic: Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? Gianluca Administrator	I thought it was already clear but a direct answer is necessary. The login it's here because I need to weigh the community. If it's too small, there's no reason to continue with this project because it's draining me. If it's big enough, the app service must become paid for the same exact reason as above.
09/03/2024 Topic: Who (the hell) are the SyMenu users? Gianluca Administrator	FLOSS wrote: Oh my god! Are you serious? Or just greedy? Happy shitstorm! If you can't handle it, make it opensource, put it on github or somewhere else. You are captivating free software on MY COMPUTER! Without even warning me before the update! I hope you will be sued for that. Wow, that was the worst thing you could ever do. Dear FLOSS, I'm very sorry to have ruined your day and YOUR COMPUTER with the simple login process. And sorry to not have alerted you in advance that, probably, in the future, a portion of the software you are using for free could become a paid one or could be turned off. You are right, I should have posted a note for you. I hope to be in time and this is the note for you: "Dear FLOSS, probably, in the future, the SyMenu part dedicated to the management of the other freeware programs, could become a paid one or could be shutted down. Sorry for you loss" Now I'm waiting to be sued by you dear friend. And I'm waiting for the shitstorm too.
09/03/2024 Topic: SyMenu 8.01 Gianluca Administrator	kenny6 wrote: when i go to get new apps all the ones i have show as discontinued and there are no longer any new apps to select, why is this? It's because the program definitions have not been downloaded. To solve the issue check if your SyMenu is updated to the latest version (8.01). Then open again the app management and the problem should be gone. And please report the outcome.
09/03/2024 Topic: 8.01.8833 Virus? Gianluca Administrator	cybolon wrote: After updating to the new version Windows Defender reported a trojan and quarantined the symenu.dll. Can't start SyMenu anymore. Any hints? Sure. If you trust SyMenu (you should do it) please tell your Windows Defender that SyMenu is a good boy, not a bad one.
09/03/2024 Topic: 8.01.8833 Virus? Gianluca Administrator	If you don't trust me, download the package from the web site and submit it to virus total. I think you can trust they.