|
Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
08/03/2024
|
Dear users,
since I'm a person of his word, this new SyMenu version carries a new considerable feature: you have to login to access the app suites.
To understand the reason for this news, please read this post: here https://www.ugmfree.it/Forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891
The other relevant feature is a great redraw for the app grid.
I'm really interested in knowing what you think about this new feature, so, please, be my guest.
|
|
|
link
|
|
NoSpamDan Posts: 1
08/03/2024
|
After reading https://www.ugmfree.it/Forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891 it really does not bother me. I was kinda curious as to how you knew how many people were actually using Symenu. But with the login, you will definitely know and have a better more accurate answer. I hope this does not deter users from using SyMenu. With SyMenu, I can basically do my job from any PC that I have access to.
I hope this helps in the forward movement of SyMenu and not the hypothetical statement about "not many users so closing the project". Long time (many years) ago I was using PortableApps, however adding my own apps that I use and need was kinda a pain and I found Symenu and that it was VERY customizable to me needs.
Long Live SyMenu!
|
|
|
link
|
|
Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
08/03/2024
|
I don't know precisely how many users hide behind those few ID codes that should be uniques. What I know is that those "four people" usually update their suites from 3.000 places worldwide in the same day. Is Christ back on earth?
|
|
|
link
|
|
kenny6 Posts: 1
09/03/2024
|
when i go to get new apps all the ones i have show as discontinued and there are no longer any new apps to select, why is this?
|
|
|
link
|
|
Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
09/03/2024
|
kenny6 wrote:
when i go to get new apps all the ones i have show as discontinued and there are no longer any new apps to select, why is this?
It's because the program definitions have not been downloaded.
To solve the issue check if your SyMenu is updated to the latest version (8.01).
Then open again the app management and the problem should be gone.
And please report the outcome.
|
|
|
link
|
|
sl23 Posts: 285
09/03/2024
|
You know my views. All the best Gian.
|
|
|
link
|
|
sl23 Posts: 285
10/03/2024
|
I like the new updater layout, but am not currently in need of installing apps so can't test it. Thanks for your hard work Gian, very much appreciated.
|
|
|
link
|
|
Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
11/03/2024
|
Thank you @sl23.
You are always so supportive and I'm grateful you are in this community  .
The next step will be the graphical review of the details panel where a lot of good ideas have already been put on the table. I think, after that , the app management will become very smooth and easier to use.
Let's see what happens next.
BTW even if you haven't had any updates so far, you can test the hiding system for all the grid columns you don't need and check if the new program status, moved on the same cell as the checkbox, suits you.
|
|
|
link
|
|
sl23 Posts: 285
11/03/2024
|
I have to admit, seeing it in action is strange. But once used to it it'll be good. The only thing that jars me a bit is the update pane appearing and moving the columns when you tick a box, but, I don't see a way around that. What do you think about it?
BTW, you're welcome. You've given us something more than a program, you've given us a service. You deserve the credit!
|
|
|
link
|
|
Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
11/03/2024
|
sl23 wrote:
The only thing that jars me a bit is the update pane appearing and moving the columns when you tick a box, but I don't see a way around that. What do you think about it?
I hate that behaviour. For real. I don't remember that, but it was probably the main reason for the horizontal approach. But, like you, I don't have an idea on what to solve it unless I resize the entire form to prevent the grid resizing. Anyway I hope a better idea will pop up.
|
|
|
link
|
|
sl23 Posts: 285
11/03/2024
|
Or keep it visible, but that's not great either!
|
|
|
link
|
|
xavi Posts: 7
12/03/2024
|
Hi, I was surprised to find that you asked me to log in. I thought I had inadvertently activated something, until I got here and read the new release notes. I don't see too much of a problem with it asking for the account once and no more. If it were more times yes, because I usually use very complex passwords and I do not remember them and if it asks me again, I would need to access the password manager and that would already bother me. Anyway, I understand that there is an unpaid outside work behind the management and maintenance and whatever the developer suggests should at least be understood and respected. Thanks for your work.
|
|
|
link
|
|
jopa66 Posts: 16
12/03/2024
|
I usually use very complex passwords and I do not remember them and if it asks me again, I would need to access the password manager and that would already bother me.
Simple way to create and *remember* long, unique and secure passwords.
WEBSITEpwd=4.12345
GOOGLEpwd=4.12345
SYMENUpwd=4.12345
UGMFREEpwd=4.12345
The website name in ALL CAPS is what makes it unique. What comes after is a mix of lower case, special characters, and numbers that can be repeated indefinitely that only you know.
|
|
|
link
|
|
xavi Posts: 7
12/03/2024
|
jopa66 wrote:
I usually use very complex passwords and I do not remember them and if it asks me again, I would need to access the password manager and that would already bother me.
Simple way to create and *remember* long, unique and secure passwords.
WEBSITEpwd=4.12345
GOOGLEpwd=4.12345
SYMENUpwd=4.12345
UGMFREEpwd=4.12345
The website name in ALL CAPS is what makes it unique. What comes after is a mix of lower case, special characters, and numbers that can be repeated indefinitely that only you know.
Thanks for the tip,it's good in general use, but not in my case for sites that must renew for expiratation date.
|
|
|
link
|
|
SiggiSy Posts: 2
24/03/2024
|
I just realized, that the last update of SyMenu adds some "User-Control" with Login, etc.
I'm one of the persons that won't update until it's clear what's realy in you mind?
I hope it is just optional and not obligatory to continue using SyMenu.
Don't take the wrong path!
What comes next?
Do you want to collect more information? For example who downloaded and who uses what software how often?
Of course this is very valuable information not only for you as a developer!
But are you also aware of the responsibility that comes with it?
This information linked to an email-adress is very risky and very sensitive data!
The only reason to intodruce email-linked accounts, is either because you are very curious or because you want to sell the data or your software in some form.
Even if you don't want to do that an promise not to do so high and holy - you will loose trust of many users and because of the closed source nobody can regain that trust!
Please, consider other sources of compensation for your hard work.
Every big company like Microsoft (with github) and Google (with Android) is putting lots of efforts in open source!
I understand that you don't want to do that. But there are many other more privacy-friendly solutions to get money!
Maybe make it more easy and simple to donate money on a regular monthly basis, e.g. with www.patreon.com
A few people who set up the subscription once could make a decent contribution to you!
Donors like me sometimes simply forget to donate actively.
A subscription that runs automatically in the background doesn't hurt and would probably be more successful for you.
You search people for support to keep the symenu database up to date - the more data you want to collect, the less people want to contribute.
This won't be the downfall of Symenu, but it won't make Symenu any better than it already is.
edited by SiggiSy on 24/03/2024
|
|
|
link
|
|
Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
24/03/2024
|
SiggiSy wrote:
I just realized, that the last update of SyMenu adds some "User-Control" with Login, etc.
I'm one of the persons that won't update until it's clear what's realy in you mind?
Well I thought it would be clear after almost, two months of discussion.
Please read this: https://www.ugmfree.it/forum/messages.aspx?TopicID=891
Probably you haven't realized what's going on because you are one of the reasons I created the login: people who take the benefits of a twenty-year project like this without saying a single word, without thanks one single time, without helping or supporting.
Then a login comes and someone pops up warning me to not do this or that to not disappoint people like him, people that I never knew existed.
Please!
I don't care a lot if you trust me or not, you are a stranger, a taker. You've been a taker for probably years. If you don't agree with the direction of this project you can go, I'll survive.
What I care about, a lot, is the opinions, the ideas, the suggestions, the criticisms of people that take part in this project actively.
So if you think you are other than a taker, you should try to help instead of warn me.
Your idea about a monthly donation could be a good one but I've no experience in that.
Are you experienced with it?
Want to help?
Why do you think asking for an email and a nickname is so dangerous? I'm living in the EU and I am perfectly aware about the consequences of managing personal or sensitive data because of the EU and Italian privacy laws. I know I'm managing no sensitive data and one only personal data (the email). BTW if you want you can use a temporary email, I don't care, I don't prevent it.
What I only want is to count you.
But if you think my data management is dangerous or amateurish or have any kind of suggestion or think that I don't understand what I'm doing and want to help with this, please be my guest.
And a last thing: as I already told another comedian, you are free to say whatever you like here but don't insult nor threaten me.
What's that sentence about the wrong path (in bold)?
Who are you to speak about right and wrong?
Obi Wan Kenobi?
|
|
|
link
|
|
SiggiSy Posts: 2
25/03/2024
|
It's a pitty that you see me only as a taker.
I took the time to register here in SyMenu Forum (not because of the update). I took the time to express my concerns and i am taking the time to answer you now again. And by the way I also donated money for you.
Who am I to tell you what to do! This was not my intention, of course.
But i hope, that you stil don't see me only as a taker but instead as somone who is interested, that SyMenu will continue to exist!
I understand that someone who put 20 years of work in something is pissed off, when suddenly someone comes here with a little criticism.
The existance of the Windows Package Manager since three years that could make SyMenu obsolete in the near future is probably not pleasing for you, too.
Maybe i really watched to much Star Wars or maybe my english is just not good enoug, to express my concerns in a more diplomatic way, so that i had to write it in bold letters.
Microsft has Windows PackaeTrust is what microsoft doesn't have anymore, so you should care about, even if you don't know the users.
I'm usig SyMenu since 4 years now, but you never asked for money or support.
Maybe you asked fot it here in the forums.
It would be better placed in the software, for example with a button (like here) or a message at first start.
Take a look at liberapay for a good recurring donation system.
Keep up that good work and thank you!
|
|
|
link
|
|
g3o Posts: 2
31/03/2024
|
I was also one of those who used SyMenu for years without asking myself what effort was behind it and who was paying for it.
As has already been written in this forum, I was also surprised that there were never any calls for donations in the program, so I hardly ever looked at the website.
I'd rather pay money for a program than pay with my data, so the price is clear.
When after an update - without warning - the use of SyMenu was only possible with a login, I immediately reactivated the backup.
At first I thought that in future my user data would be sold to finance this program.
It was immediately clear to me that I would rather not use this program than only use it with a login.
Then I discovered this forum.
I was born in 1965 and have been active on the Internet for more than 30 years; not a programmer but an experienced beta tester and translator.
From the beginning I have supported non-commercial projects, and could also help here with my experience.
I suggest the following solutions:
SyMenu remains usable without login, but:
After starting the program for the umpteenth time, a pop-up appears informing you that SyMenu is a non-commercial project by a private individual and therefore requires donations.
Those who pay at least 12 euros receive a login with which they can download program updates. This login is valid for one year.
Without a donation, you will only receive the major updates (once a year) to test the program.
After minor updates, a pop-up appears informing you that there are updates, but that these are only available after a small donation.
Too aggressive begging is a deterrent, no begging leads to financial problems (the current situation), so a middle way has to be found.
Best wishes from Switzerland
Christopher
--
Please delete this abandoned profile
|
|
|
link
|
|
Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
01/04/2024
|
g3o wrote:
SyMenu remains usable without login, but:
After starting the program for the umpteenth time, a pop-up appears informing you that SyMenu is a non-commercial project by a private individual and therefore requires donations.
Those who pay at least 12 euros receive a login with which they can download program updates.
Hi Christopher.I'm interested in your suggestions but they are not so clear to me.So if you don't bother too much, please explain them better.
First thing I don't understand how I could measure the number of SyMenu executions without a login system.
SyMenu is a portable program and can rely only on its local files to track any activity. When you execute it for the nth time, you can easily reset the counter that probably is stored in a configuration file and you are fresh as new.
A safer way to check these kinds of things is moving the check online but, since I have to recognize every SyMenu installation to do anything, I need to create a system to make it unique and asking for a login is a good way to succeed.
With the current approach I could track how many times a certain user has downloaded the suite definitions.
With the login I can even count the number of downloads and show the popup if I want to do that.
Without the login everything becomes difficult or impossible.
You are suggesting to send a login to the users to make them download the program updates.
What it's not clear here is what program update do you refer to? Because with the singular word (program) I suspect you are referring to SyMenu.
SyMenu is free and will always be free so no donations will ever be forced for it.
If instead you referred to the programs (plural) intending the SPS suite, this is the real point of all this mess, well I don't understand what's the difference from the current approach.
I'm asking for a login immediately, instead of asking for it after the nth execution.
If the difference is that I'm asking for your email, please relax, I explicitly said more than once that I don't care if you use your real email, an anti-spam email, or a temporary email. Use whatever you want. Even if you lose your (false) credentials and want to regain access to SyMenu you can do it with a new false email and you'll lose nothing of your local configuration.
So, please explain, what's the real point? Because for sure there's a point but I can't see it, I have a problem in understanding all your concerns guys.
More than one person is afraid I can sell his personal data. What personal data? I never asked for your real name, nor for your real email. So I'm really not understanding what's the real point here.
To be crystal clear I only need to count how many people are using this part of the programs (the SPS part) to decide if I can go on forcing everyone to help with money, or if I can go on asking nothing but slowing down my pace of updating and stopping the addition of new programs, or if I can abandon it completely because it's too demanding.
One last thing I already said but it's useful to repeat it again.
You can refuse to update SyMenu because for now I'm allowing the definition download even with outdated SyMenu versions. But this thing will end soon. I'm only leaving all the users the time to update then whoever asks for the new definition with outdated SyMenu version will receive a 404.
So please decide if you want to be an active part of the community registering yourself or if you prefer to use SyMenu without the SPS. Or, naturally, if you leave.
edited by Gianluca on 01/04/2024
|
|
|
link
|
|
sl23 Posts: 285
01/04/2024
|
Tbh, I'm at a loss in understanding what the login achieves. So, the idea is to gather information on how many people are using SyMenu, yes? But if false credentials are given, then how does it relate to how many users there are? If, for example, I used SyMenu on four pc's, there's nothing stopping me using four different emails, one for each, which then gives false usage info.
Obviously, I'm right with you Gian, but I'm curious how this works exactly?
edited by sl23 on 01/04/2024
|
|
|
link
|