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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
03/02/2024
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Thanks to @scentse I realized the categories for the SyMenu suite programs are a bit verbose.
Years ago, when I implemented them, I copied the huge work portablefreeware.com did to categorize their suites. IMHO it was a really good job.
Seeing these categories today I have to admit that they are too much for our purpose.
The cleaning up will be both deleting useless categories and shortening most verbose ones.
This thread is not only for scentse and me but it's opened for the suggestions of everyone.
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scentse Posts: 27
03/02/2024
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Started compiling the list in a spreadsheet.
Must be over 100 categories.
Interesting you copied a format from another repository. I was going to suggest using the taxonomy of MajorGeeks.com
More specifically, Categories and Sub-Categories.
I'm guessing that the search algorithm uses the category field as a variable to populate results.
Some of that "verbosity" is useful as relates to returning results.
Which system do you think is preferable?
Retain the single category field?
Or alter the syntax in the search algorithm to include a sub-category?
 
edited by scentse on 03/02/2024
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
06/02/2024
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I would prefer maintaining the one level structure, shortening and, if necessary, merging the current category labels.
This is because we have a structure, made up of hundreds of SPS, that already works this way.
BTW the very moment I changed a category, nothing really happened.
The SyMenu suite remains exactly as it is today because the category field is not a closed field. The category collection I included in the SPS Builder is only a suggestion and the editor can write whatever he thinks is more appropriate.
Even during an SPS update the editor can use a category that is no more in the collection.
For this reason the transition to the new taxonomy will be extremely slow.
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scentse Posts: 27
06/02/2024
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Gianluca wrote:
I would prefer maintaining the one level structure, shortening and, if necessary, merging the current category labels.
This is because we have a structure, made up of hundreds of SPS, that already works this way.
BTW the very moment I changed a category, nothing really happened.
The SyMenu suite remains exactly as it is today because the category field is not a closed field. The category collection I included in the SPS Builder is only a suggestion and the editor can write whatever he thinks is more appropriate.
Even during an SPS update the editor can use a category that is no more in the collection.
For this reason the transition to the new taxonomy will be extremely slow.
Sure. Good a plan as any.
Having the hierarchy might help if the GUI for discovering packages was ever changed to be nested behind links.
If that scenario ever arises, this process of merging the numerous categories would still be necessary
Another point you rightly mention regards the actual process of changing the many sps files.
- Do you have a script which can change multiple sps of one category to another category?
- Or must each sps be changed one at a time?
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
07/02/2024
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Yes, sure.
If there's a clear correlation among the two groups I can create a batch process to change the old categories with the new ones. Unless an old category splits in two or three new ones but since we are going in the opposite direction I think it could be done.
After that there will be a problem with the SPS status because all of them will result as updated. But after a while the situation will normalize.
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sl23 Posts: 285
07/02/2024
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From the sounds of it, this is a job for one person to plan and decide on a full list of categories that apply to all current and future apps.
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sl23 Posts: 285
10/02/2024
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I agree that ONE WORD categories is the right way to go.
If any help is required on this, let me know.
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+1
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scentse Posts: 27
11/02/2024
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Gianluca wrote:
Yes, sure...
...But after a while the situation will normalize.
Phew. Sounds good.
I'd started a spreadsheet with the current categories in one column with the proposed new category name in another column.
Before continuing the process, I wanted to ensure this was an adequate manner to conduct the process.
I anticipate it will take approx week. to complete.
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
12/02/2024
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scentse wrote:
I'd started a spreadsheet with the current categories in one column with the proposed new category name in another column. Before continuing the process, I wanted to ensure this was an adequate manner to conduct the process.
A spreadsheet is a perfect way to manage the categories and I like old/new columns.
When it is ready you can copy and paste everything on a message in this thread so we can share with anybody else interested.
Then I can replace the new category in SPS Builder.
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scentse Posts: 27
15/02/2024
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Gianluca wrote:
A spreadsheet is a perfect way to manage the categories and I like old/new columns.
Then I can replace the new category in SPS Builder.
All 255 old categories are recorded.
Updating the nomenclature is bit more difficult without super categories.
The suggestion by @sl23 of using single word categories is a noble pursuit to keep things clean.
Implementing a super category could potentially be beneficial in that respect.
Even if they are not used, I'll include add an additional column for super categories.
edited by scentse on 15/02/2024
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
16/02/2024
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I'm a bit confused here.
The present situation is something like this:
You can read every line as a super category and a specialized one (parent - children).
It's not different from the MajorG organization apart from the fact that every group has been expanded.
If you think the super category can be useful, I agree with you.
If you think the super category can be deleted, I agree with you.
The important thing is that your choice makes sense and is consistent.
In my opinion the rework should have multiple targets:
1) eliminate duplications. For example "Internet - FTP clients" and "Internet - FTP servers" could be condensed as "Internet - FTP" because the program's descriptions will be enough to discern between one and the other and the unique category won't be too crowded. Or "Internet" super category and "Internet - Miscellaneous" can be joined together in "Internet" because a super category can accept an entry;
2) meaning improvement. For example as a user I don't have an idea on what "Internet - Media Clients" means. Probably can contain tools to stream videos and music to the client (Spotify, Netflix). So could it be best named "Internet - Streamers"?
3) eliminate useless entries. For example "Internet - Offline Browsers " could be related to tools like WinHTTrack and Cyotek WebCopy that are technically offline browsers. If you see their real SPS categories, the editors classified them respectively as "Internet" and "Internet - Miscellaneous". It means the entry is useless or not very understandable. And IMHO every category that potentially can host less than 10 programs (available worldwide, not the program we already have in the suite) can be deleted.
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+1
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scentse Posts: 27
16/02/2024
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Gianluca wrote:
I'm a bit confused here.
The present situation is something like this...
The screenshot must be from the SPS Builder.
The drop down menu looks rather clean.
But in the main program, those are just cutoff fields unless the category column is stretched wide.
As for your points 1,2,3
That's not confusing at all.
It's what's being implemented.
A lot of merging categories with under five programs.
Many categories can be batch processed.
But certain categories contain unrelated programs that must be regrouped one by one.
These categories are marked with an *.
The super category is in most instances the wording before the hyphen.
This is listed in a separate third column.
Perhaps redundant, but there nonetheless.
@sl23's suggestion of using just one word for categories is a bit unrealistic.
But it is potentially workable for super-categories.
It requires lots of back and forth to analyze what structure works.
Please remember these are just proposed.
Screenshot so far...
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sl23 Posts: 285
16/02/2024
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Spell checkers, Office Suite, PDF editing should just be under category OFFICE. Productivity means nothing to me personally and could include a very broad amount of apps that doesn't really describe the content very well. Computers are productive and everything you do on them is more productive than doing similar jobs without a computer. So I personally don't like that word as a category.
Audio and Video should be two separate categories too instead of lumping all together.
Graphics & Photos could simply be called Imaging, or just call it Graphics.
Internet Tools... just call it INTERNET. Cause really, you could add Tools to many other categories to fill them out a bit.
Hope you don't mind the gentle criticism, just trying to help. 
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+1
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scentse Posts: 27
17/02/2024
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sl23 wrote:
Hope you don't mind the gentle criticism, just trying to help.
Thanks for your ideas, they're most certainly helpful.
Some I'd already considered, others I'll implement going forward.
Bear in mind, this process is far from complete.
I sent the early screenshot so @Gianluca would have an idea of the spreadsheet's format.
Worth acknowledging, everyone maintains a different organization & structure.
Nonetheless, I'm certain everyone agrees that 255 categories is too many.
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
19/02/2024
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scentse wrote:
I'm certain everyone agrees that 255 categories is too many.
No doubt on it.
Now that the job is taking shape, if you want any help with it, you can load the Excel in a Google sheet and share it with me. This way I can give my contribution, Google sheet preserve the versions, and we can comment every change there.
And if you (and sl23) agree we could add him too. As you noted he's a really smart person and has a clear vision of the entire project... Well, he's been helping SyMenu since... I don't even remember but it's been years... Think about the sl23 user ID is 208...
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sl23 Posts: 285
19/02/2024
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Aw, thanks Gian, 
208? How many are there?
Um, never used google sheets, but sure I can figure it out, being "a really smart person!" 
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
21/02/2024
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sl23 wrote:
208? How many are there?
Today we are 730 
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sl23 Posts: 285
22/02/2024
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Gianluca wrote:
Today we are 730
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lupusbalo Posts: 76
02/03/2024
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Totally agree that the number of Categories is too large."
This is why I use my own (~12) mainly based on the existing ones but ONE WORD
and sometimes add sub categories (few) to keep a "reasonnable" size of submenus
this add somme little extra work at the beginning and when update really minor but BEST USE
don't know if is usefull but this my 2 cents
Jean-Louis
edited by lupusbalo on 02/03/2024
edited by lupusbalo on 02/03/2024
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sl23 Posts: 285
02/03/2024
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That's my setup too. I use one word categories, around ten of them. I used to use subcategories but found it a hassle entering them, so now I have only a main category. Once set up, no need to touch it. Has worked this way for around 5 years or so now.
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