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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
02/12/2018
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Hello "Symenu fans",
I suddenly realized that we are close to Christmas and I have said to myself: "I am going to make my wish list for SyMenu".
Logically I do not expect everything to arrive before Christmas, but if we go organizing this may help Gian to know what is the most expected feature of all because it is now distributed throughout all the Forum. (Honestly I have to say that I am influenced by the Kano model with which I am actually working)
After the big improvement of program graphics of the last version, My SyMenu three "wish list" in order is:
1st) To be alerted in all SPS updates even with the SPS Apps with "Build in updater" checked (with "0.00.sps.version") Post.
2nd) Get the item "Host Programs" as isolated menu item to to definitely kill the windows start menu (actually is integrated in "My Computer" item and is not possible to show it in the first level))
3er) New 'Script After Install' command "RunFile" on install and update Post. (Well, I know that this very, very special feature, a "publisher" wish)
I hope that this thread will be useful for all, applying Kano's marketing approach to new features: What does the client consider important and how is it implemented.
edited by VVV_Easy_Symenu on 02/12/2018
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
06/12/2018
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Ho ho ho... So I'd be a sort of Santa Claus now 
Let's see what I have in my sack...
1) With the next version you'll have something similar even if not exactly what you are asking for. You'll be able to always force an update this means that you'll be able to force an update of a normal item and a 0.00 item too.
Indeed you are already notified of any new update with the little "upd" and "new" badges placed over the program icons but I got your point and probably we will arrive there before or after.
2) It's one of the topic of the bunch I'm analyzing for the next version. It's not a sure implementation but likely.
3) Well it's not among the top priorities but who knows... in Christmas time we are all on our best behavior
Since we are speaking about the next I have some anticipations of already ready features.
1) You'll have a logging feature (turned off by default) that can log your activity in SyMenu;
2) You can force an SPS updated (already covered before)
3) In the configuration form the cursors keys with the SHIFT modifier are able to move the items up, down, up level, and inside the very next folder
4) The item cloning available in the configuration form with drag & drop, can now be done with the special context menu entry too
5) The Visit web site link in configuration form is now a button
6) Fix - Deleting an item that shares its program icon with another item, doesn't remove the icon file anymore
7) Fix - The item description textbox in configuration form now selects all its text on enter as the other textboxes
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
02/02/2019
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Wow, very good news. We have a new version: 6.07.6972 [2019.02.02].
Good work, Gian!
Trying!
edited by VVV_Easy_Symenu on 02/02/2019
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
03/02/2019
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I'm trying the new version: 6.07.6972 [2019.02.02]. Some quick returns:
"Breaking change on the customizable menu structure: the Host programs item is now separated from MyComputer item"
It works as expected. Nice.
"An already updated program can be forced to update itself again. It works with autoupdatable programs too (0.00)"
I don't understand how this works. I explain myself with an example with a 0.00.sps app "Mozilla Firefox Portable":
- I have the 61.0.2 version installed. How I knows? Because when I run it alerts me that there is an update and I can see it in the inner FireFox menu.
- In the Get New Apps windows today it apears with the version 65.0 updated in 29-01-2019 as Added (and no UPD banner over the icon, even when yesterday was in 64.0)
- If I check it and "Apply All" in the Get New Apps windows it ask me for Remove, not for update, logical usual behavior.
So,
- How I can force to update this app?
- How I know that has been a change in the Added app? (I have expected a banner UPD over the icon)
"The Visit web site link in configuration form is now a button"
Nice.
Thank you for your perseverant work for so many years, Gian
edited by VVV_Easy_Symenu on 03/02/2019
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lupusbalo Posts: 76
03/02/2019
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installed this version 3 hours ago and ......
... and it still works!!! 
OK I leave
Lupusbalo
Heu thanks Gianluca
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
04/02/2019
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VVV_Easy_Symenu wrote:
I'm trying the new version: 6.07.6972 [2019.02.02]. Some quick returns:
"An already updated program can be forced to update itself again. It works with autoupdatable programs too (0.00)"
I don't understand how this works. I explain myself with an example with a 0.00.sps app "Mozilla Firefox Portable":
- I have the 61.0.2 version installed. How I knows? Because when I run it alerts me that there is an update and I can see it in the inner FireFox menu.
- In the Get New Apps windows today it apears with the version 65.0 updated in 29-01-2019 as Added (and no UPD banner over the icon, even when yesterday was in 64.0)
- If I check it and "Apply All" in the Get New Apps windows it ask me for Remove, not for update, logical usual behavior.
So,
- How I can force to update this app?
- How I know that has been a change in the Added app? (I have expected a banner UPD over the icon)
Well so many questions here.
1) How I know that a new program version is available?
It depends.
You are notified from the Get New Apps (UPD banner over the icon) only if the person in charge (the SPS editor) supplies the update information to our system.
You are notified from the program itself only if the program has this functionality.
FF represents a particular case. It will always alert you instead of our SPS system because, since FF is so reliable about its updates process, we tagged it as 0.00 that means: "please dear user, trust FF and update the program from its internal update feature, and don't expect any update information from our system".
2) The UPD banner never appears on the 0.00 programs. I can't remember why I decided to adopt this behavior but, at the time, it seemed sane.
3) The group behavior of the programs doesn't change in the Get New Apps window. So it is correct it asks you to remove an added program.
4) How I can force to update this app?
Go to the Get new apps, right click on an already added program, choose Force update from the web site. It works with either normal and 0.00 programs.
5) How I know that has been a change in the Added app?
As usual an available update is notified with the red update banner.
Don't expect a new behavior with the 0.00 programs instead. If they are already added, they never show the banner.
All your questions are done because of a misunderstanding: the forced update is not an exclusive feature for the 0.00 programs but it's a common feature for every already added program that you want to refresh for any reason.
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
04/02/2019
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Gianluca wrote:
4) How I can force to update this app?
Go to the Get new apps, right click on an already added program, choose Force update from the web site. It works with either normal and 0.00 programs.
It works fine. To force update is all of I need.
Gianluca wrote:
2) The UPD banner never appears on the 0.00 programs. I can't remember why I decided to adopt this behavior but, at the time, it seemed sane.
I understand and share the reason for the basic users (banner without alert of Update in the Status column for the 0.00 apps it's confusing).
Gianluca wrote:
5) How I know that has been a change in the Added app?
As usual an available update is notified with the red update banner.
Don't expect a new behavior with the 0.00 programs instead. If they are already added, they never show the banner.
It's a pity that there is no option for advanced users to force the banner even in 0.00 apps.
To surround this I must do: after updating the Updates Definition, I should filter by Added and sort by the Released on column to update the normal apps (check box) as well as the 0.00 (right click).
With this, my first wish on the list would be complete (although with the forced update I can handle it)
edited by VVV_Easy_Symenu on 04/02/2019
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
06/02/2019
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But why you need to force the update for 0.00?
A 0.00 program should be able to force its own update. This is the behavior for Firefox for example.
Is there any 0.00 program that doesn't behave in that way?
Because in that case the program shouldn't be tagged as a 0.00 in the SPS.
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
06/02/2019
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There are several occasions where it is necessary and arrived to me:
1) You prepare the SyMenu Suite on a computer with internet access but use it in one without access. You never detect an update: neither when you update the suite on your computer with internet (because is a 0.00 app) or when you use the application without internet access.
2) Another similar case is when you are behind a proxy with a ban on download pages.
3) When you prepare a SyMenu "origin" and have other SyMenu "mirrors" synchronized with it. If the user updates a "mirror" with autoupdate but the "origin" is not updated for not use of the app, when you re-synchronize, you undo the update.
4) Many programs take time to detect the update (or lack of internet): then I disable the autoupdate. For instance, sometimes you have several instances open and the first one begins to do the update and forces the others to close.
5) I trust more in an update uploaded by the publisher than the automatic update itself.
6) Is in my memory that I have had problems with the autoupdate of the portable FireFox but now I do not have data (itself, proxy, etc). I'm tuned to inform if it comes again.
There are probably more cases but I hope that these serve to understand the need.
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
11/02/2019
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If you think that having the UPD read banner even on installed 0.00 can be useful I can try to add it.
I'm not sure it's possible because the UPD banner is strongly associated with the Update status which is tied with the option to update that entry. I have to separate the two things.
Or... add a third banner (NEW, UPD, AUT).
AUT means: "dear user, there is a new version for this program but since it's a 0.00 it's in AUTo update mode, so please make it autoupdates or force the update from here!!".
It's still a draft but what do you think?
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
14/02/2019
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Gianluca wrote:
Or... add a third banner (NEW, UPD, AUT).
AUT means: "dear user, there is a new version for this program but since it's a 0.00 it's in AUTo update mode, so please make it autoupdates or force the update from here!!".
It's still a draft but what do you think?
I think the new AUT banner is the best solution, for two reasons:
1) It works for the normal user because it solves the possible incoherence of different Status "Added "and "Update" of the APP with the same banner.
2) For the advanced users it allows to distinguish the 0.00 app update and decide the "make it autoupdates or force the update from here!!"
Well thought, Gian!
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
14/02/2019
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Consider it done.
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
16/02/2019
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Thank you very much 
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
17/02/2019
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And abusing your benevolence: Now we have a filter for the Status, Would be possible a filter for the banner too?
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
18/02/2019
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Well I would like to open an entire new thread regarding the search for SPS apps.
My idea is to merge the three official suites in a single one, the SyMenu suite, and create a smarter search to find items.
For example to search the NirSoft tools you should write something like: PUB:Nirsoft instead of selecting the Publisher checkbox on the NirSoft tab.
This new way will allow you to combine every search entry with any other.
For example you'll be able to make a search that today is impossible:
STAT:Added STAT:Update
Today you can only filter for Added or for Update.
Naturally you can combine any search filter with any other.
For example:
"text CAT:editor CAT:graphic STAT:New"
which means: search in name and description (the two default text search fields) the string "text" AND add every item with a Category that contains the string "editor" AND add every item with a category that contains the string "graphic" AND add all the items with a New Status.
Well it's a draft and it won't be this way but I would like very much to move the search in this direction.
But... the next implementation won't be this one... You'll probably get a feature that alert you when you have some app that need to be updated. It's the first step to a fully unattended auto update feature. So please stay tuned for news
In the meanwhile if anyone has any idea about the future search feature, please be my guest.
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VVV_Easy_Symenu Posts: 159
22/02/2019
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Very ambitious, Gian ...
Perhaps you should open a survey before dedicating so much work.
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
25/02/2019
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You are right. When the moment arrives, I'll probably do it.
Anyway the search must be improved one way or another, because today is unbearable (IMHO).
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