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jemail Posts: 6
17/02/2016
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So how do I select all nirsoft apps for download/install. Do I really have to click each one individually?
edited by jemail on 17/02/2016
edited by jemail on 17/02/2016
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
17/02/2016
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Do you really need all of them? 
Yes you are right I haven't implemented the bulk selector yet because it is unusual that someone wants to download everyting and because I have to implement a method to group the newly created SyItem in a different way... now you'll find them all on the root.
Anyway you can workaround the single click with the mouse using the keyboard which is faster:
- select the first checkbox with the mouse
- click on your keyaboard the arrow down key and click the space bar
- repeat the sequence with the arrow down key and space bar until the end of the list.
Hope this help
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jemail Posts: 6
17/02/2016
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Anything that reduces RSI is a good thing. Any selectable list with 10 or more entries should have a select all/deselect all option. I hardly think using the keyboard is faster if I have to select upwards of 50 entries.
edited by jemail on 17/02/2016
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sl23 Posts: 285
17/02/2016
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You see Gian, a good reason to add WSCC to free you from responsibility of this app suite! ;-)
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
19/02/2016
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Nice joke sl23
Hosting Nirsoft suite inside SyMenu is an honor for me and not a charge, especially because I received the direct endorsement from Nir Softer.
The problem jemail met is a real problem along with all SyMenu suite not the Nirsoft one only.
I'm studing it and with a chance of 90% in the next version you can optionally install the SPS programs inside automatic created folders based on the programs categories.
This is the main prerequisite for the jemail request because I can't allow massive installation that risks to mess your menu with hundred of elements all inside the root.
If I realize that feature, I'll also create a standard way to multi select the SPS.
I'm thinking about the use of the SHIFT key modifier. You find the SHIFT key use in various software (Windows Explorer, Total Commander, Double commander, Free Commander, Unreal Commander, Gmail, Outlook, Excel...). The SPS Manager will work exactly in the same way.
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sl23 Posts: 285
19/02/2016
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Not a joke but a practical solution :-)
But, I didn't know about your personal interest and favouring the suite, that's fine, just thought it would help you regarding time used keeping them updated, etc.
I think I got a little lost, possibly due to the translation or me simply being an idiot!  but I'm not really understanding your last paragraph at the beginning. You say about installing suites in their own folders, but they already are??? Would you mind elaborating further please.
Looking forward to next version, sounds fantastic! Thank you so much for providing such an innovative program.
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
19/02/2016
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It's surely because of my English don't worry
Today when you add a new SPS program, SyMenu creates the entry in the root of your menu. It's up to you to configure a more appropriate location through the configuration form.
Conversely if you are updating an SPS program, its logical position won't be changed so if you have all your Nirsoft programs inside a logical folder called "Nirsoft suite", the SPS update won't impact on their location.
With the next version you'll have an option to instruct SyMenu to put the completely new SPS programs inside a folder and not in the root.
SyMenu will take the SPS category name to create/locate a folder with the same name in the root and put the new SPS program there inside.
In case of categories with a compound name, for example program A category is system - Benchmark and program B is system - Utility, SyMenu creates a generic folder called system and you'll find both the programs all inside the folder system.
For the SPS programs updating nothing will change, their logical folder will be preserved.
In the future version I can evolve this concept but for now let's try this new approach.
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sl23 Posts: 285
20/02/2016
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Ah, I'm with you now! Just like PA.c menu where there are preset categories for each app. This was one thing I liked about their menu. But... I fear that here it's more difficult to get right, why? Let me explain...
I was looking through the SPS Manager list a while ago for some specific app, can't quite remember which now, so let's say for example photo editor. I click on the Category column and it lists apps in alphabetical order by Category. But I noticed some apps that did what I wanted were classified in a different category, slightly.
As I said, I can't remember what it was now, I think something to do with media, video or graphics. But the point is I had to look through the whole list anyway to find what I wanted. Oh! It may have been a movie catalogue software?
I think it would be better to categorise apps more simply but have plenty more options. Customisation as a category doesn't exist for example. There are several times when creating new sps files that I've struggled to find a category and had to pick the closest available. I find it odd that TPFC has so many categories missing! Simplifying them by offering only single layer categories would be better, maybe that's just my opinion though?
I find it easier to find stuff, directly without fiddling with two or three layers of the menu, which can be awkward at times when working quickly. Not a SyMenu problem, just a general menu problem. I have a single Category called File Management that encompasses Archivers, File Managers, File Unlockers, Recovery, Synchronisation/Backup software and even PortableFileAssociater. There isn't a long list here only 15 apps! So combining categories to a singular Parent doesn't create an issue, unless EVERY app! But should that be the case, I doubt users would stick with the defaults as they are now anyway. I know I wouldn't as they aren't always correct in my opinion. But that's just me!
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
02/03/2016
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@sl23
I know that you hate using the SPS search engine but unfortunately this is the future.
Think about this.
Today we have nearly 1.000 programs split up in the three suites. The SyMenu Suite alone counts on 578 programs and all the three suites are constantly growing.
We will reach a point where scan the entire list will become senseless.
The search is the only way to master so many entries.
The current filters become simple prefilled searches. Eventually I can think a way to allow the user to create his own filters/searches.
My model here is the Gmail search engine. In Gmail when you want to search all the mail with the label it-SPS you are simply searching something like that "label:it-SPS" and using the available filter button is the same then using the search.
So every current filter will become a search and even the suites split will lose its meaning.
Will this change risk to convert the SPS Manager in a mess? I don't know but anyway this change is not in my priority list so we have time to think about that.
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sl23 Posts: 285
02/03/2016
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You realise I'm talking about categories and not the search, yes?
Though I do see some relevance in category search, but I was referring to the option to install apps into categories as well as the search function. Reread and you might see what I'm getting at. It's not too important for me really but I just think the TPFC idea of categories is something that needs redoing. Their category list is not always clear and some apps become mislabelled because of it.
It's not just SPS where the search is at fault, it's every search engine! Because people tag things incorrectly it corrupts the search. Search IMDB for Thriller and see what I mean! The search engine is at fault as it doesn't realise you want to search for Thriller as a genre. A very simple example, but it elucidates the problem that search engines are nowhere near perfect.
Even everyday searches on the web give totally irrelevant results! If they can't get it right, how can anyone else?! GooglePlayStore is another try searching for something you only remember half the title of, you'll get a million result for completely irrelevant apps!
I hate search engines ever since XP! It took forever and hardly ever found what I wanted!
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+1
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
03/03/2016
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No I haven't understood you were talking about the "install in category" option and now I see you weren't speaking about search neither.
The topic here is the program categorization.
In my experience the categorization problem isn't solvable. It requires an unique criterion, maybe a single person who does the job. And even in this case we are not sure that this single person always works in the same way... maybe for a period he sets the categories in a way, while in another he changes his mind and changes his categorization method. And IMHO it's the only right method. In fact a way to maintain a good project organization is reorganizing it again and again, possibly every single day, because it's impossible to identify a good criterion from the start. You reach a better organization only refining and specializing your current one.
If today you suggest a better category list, within some months you surely would like to change it because it becomes inadequate.
The reality is not done of categories and our representation can only be an interpretation, our personal interpretation.
Regarding the search I would like to make a simple example.
The first web indexing portals work through categorization (do you remember Yahoo!, Altavista...?). And finding anything among the categories was a nightmare. Then Google comes and the music changed. With a categorized web you find nothing, with an indexed one you probably find more.
I agree that the search is not the definitive answer. With the search you need to know how to place your search terms, you get a lot of not needed results, you risk to be overwhelmed of too many useful results. But search is the only working solution available today.
How is the SPS state today?
We are working in a mixed environment because we have categories and search together.
I would like to push more and more the search feature without abandoning the categories, because they will become just another search.
But we can work for an improved category list starting from now because the SPS Builder doesn't tie you to the suggested list. In other words already today you can create your own categories.
For example when I create the jCloisterZone SPS I found that among the game categories it lacks the "Boardgame" one and I introduced it. You don't find it among the SPS Builder suggested/official categories but it exists the same because an SPS introduced it. Today I would like to change it in "Game - Boardgame" because it's more appropriate... maybe tomorrow I will change my mind again and the label will become "Game - Strategy - Boardgame".
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sl23 Posts: 285
03/03/2016
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Everything changes, nothing is static. Everything is relative, no one is the same. Yet we need some kind of order. It comes down to choice, if we remain indecisive, we choose nothing.
From what I've seen in various other menus, double categories make it problematic. Your choice in creating boardgame as a category, IMHO, is not necessary. There aren't many free portable boardgame apps, so creating a category for it is unnecessary.
I think it better to have many singular categories but better defined, without being too specific. For example, my menu category for Disk contains stuff like ssd-z, partition wizard, Rufus, etc. I have an Audio category for anything that edits audio in any way, same for video. Then a Media category for playing media files, both audio and video. Graphics contains all editors and viewers. And so on.
I've used this method for around 6 years and never needed to adjust it. Before that I used the double category method similar to Liberkey's, but it's confusing and much more awkward when looking for apps within a menu structure.
I do still use double categories, but only for lesser used apps. Stuff like nir soft, and some system utilities.
TPFC's categories aren't too well thought out, in my view, how do you define a category for Pazera Free Audio/Video pack? Only media suffices, yet it's against the rules of my organisation causing me to forget it's location over time and hence relying on search which I never use. So I manually search! There are only three places for it to be it's pretty fast, so not much cause for concern. However, I only use it for its video apps so I put it in Video category so I know where to locate it. But it can't be classified this way.
So maybe my argument is null and void? I don't know. But there are always exceptions to rules.
The way I've set up categories make the most logical sense if you think about it, they're direct without requiring too much thought about locating apps.
edited by sl23 on 03/03/2016
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
06/03/2016
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You argument is valuable, as usual.
My point is not against your approach but I'm objecting that your situation is not so frequent.
I tend to think in a more extended way. When I choose something it should be useful for the wider number of users and I suspect that a too narrow number of categories could create too crowded sets inside the automatic folders.
On the other side with double categories in SPS Manager, you can search for root categories only with the search tools or ordering the category column and having your root category grouped all together the same. In that way your approach could be followed even if not as perfectly as it could be.
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sl23 Posts: 285
06/03/2016
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Ok, ok, I submit to your impeccable logic! 
Are you a vulcan?
However, I seriously disagree with the current TPFC constellation of categories
edited by sl23 on 06/03/2016
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Gianluca Administrator Posts: 1274
07/03/2016
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sl23 wrote:
However, I seriously disagree with the current TPFC constellation of categories
We surely can work to improve that list
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