SyMenu - General discussion & questions - Easier SyMenuItem.xml access - Messages

Message from sl23

Sun, 26 Jul 2020 21:23:00 GMT

A few times recently, I also have had corrupt config files. I had to resort to using the automatic backups. Lucky I had them!!! ;-)
If SQLite makes this less likely to happen, it's gotta be worth it. I don't direct edit the config files, though after the first corruption, I took a look and thought it easier to replace with the older backup.

edited by sl23 on 26/07/2020

Message from Dawid

Wed, 03 Jun 2020 01:06:07 GMT

Thank you, Gianluca, for sincere words. As I see it, you or particularly your SyMenu has reached all of the typical software development fazes. Now you're on the crossroad, so I and the whole SyMenu community for sure hope you will make the right turn

Message from Gianluca

Tue, 02 Jun 2020 21:29:16 GMT

You are right.

Technically switch between the zip file and xml file would be a trivial implementation but sincerely I can't see a real usefulness in this.

After a period in which I implemented tons of options, I realized that SyMenu has become too complex.

There are literally dozens of options that nobody uses and that contribute to over complicate the program ease of use and the program source code.

My feeling today is similar to someone who is walking on eggs because every time I implement/change something in SyMenu, I risk to break something else.

For example is there anyone out there using the desktop shortcuts? https://www.ugmfree.it/SyMenuManual.aspx#DesktopShortcut
Or the command line switches? https://www.ugmfree.it/SyMenuManual.aspx#CommandLine
Or the extension manager? https://www.ugmfree.it/SyMenuManual.aspx#Extension_Manager

I fear there are not enough users to justify these kind of features.

My future plan is to simplify SyMenu to grant an easier experience even to newbie users.

This is the reason because I don't like the idea to implement a double management for the configuration files.

Message from Dawid

Tue, 02 Jun 2020 17:41:31 GMT

Yep, I'm fully aware how does work the Windows Scheduler in the event of shutdown, that's why I wrote it's strange. And yep, it's an issue of OS itself, not complaining about SyMenu, just asking if it has a config setting(s) allowing to disable zipping config files. Right now it'd be helpful not just for me as I've "lip-read" from another posts. And seemed to be a quick fix e.g. implement a new variable in config XML and put "one if" before the closing zipping procedure. Loading config files could then be based on a presence of ZIP/XML file(s) in CONFIG directory. But that's just my very simplified view on a complex program you've written

What do you think?

edited by Dawid on 02/06/2020

edited by Dawid on 02/06/2020

Message from Gianluca

Tue, 02 Jun 2020 09:20:24 GMT

The behavior you are experiencing is really weird.

When Windows is shutting down, it alerts all the opened programs and services to shut down too and it can have various behaviors as a response.

Think about a text editor with an opened document not yet saved. The editor refuses to close and alerts back Windows that the user must take an action before shutting down. It's when Windows tells you that some programs are not closing and ask you if you it has to come back to the system or force the closing.
SyMenu doesn't need this kind of user intervention. When it receive the shutting down alert, it saves its configuration files and close itself.
Windows is patient and should wait for all the programs replies so the disk speed is nor important here... it's not a race.

In your case it seems that some part of this process doesn't work as it should but I fear it's on the OS side.
Probably some settings changed this behavior or you are normally shutting down the system with the force parameter, instead of leaving it gently take its time...

I can't help you more because it's the first time I'm reported with this problem related to SyMenu. Try to search on the Internet and if you find the solution, please report it here too.

For the SQLite solution is still in my mind and there's not a real plan to implement it for now. I have to understand if it's a real useful solution for a real problem or it's only an exercise in style...

Message from Dawid

Tue, 02 Jun 2020 05:18:12 GMT

Hi Gianluca,
thank you for your prompt answer despite an old issue. It's really cool you keep an eye on this forum. Your suggestion of SQLite database is awesome, when do you expect to implement it?
Because I've witnessed really strange behaviour, when SyMenu is running in the tray and I shut down Windows. It's not a rule but once a month most of the config ZIPs are corrupted. It's like SyMenu or zipping does not catch the time to finish the file even I have SSD. Strange but happens and it's a little bit annoying for such a great software you've created. Thanks
PS: Have you noticed for couple of days timeouts from sourceforge.net when updating for example Calibre or KeePass?

Message from Gianluca

Mon, 01 Jun 2020 09:54:33 GMT

Hi Dawid,

It's an old issue and I thought it was forgotten... Anyway today it's not possible to have the configuration files in plain text.

When we talked about this topic, I had a different opinion than today.
Today I'm thinking to abandon the configuration on physical files and move them to SQLite.
We already have the SyMenu logs stored on SQLite and it works quite well.

No data corruption (until today), really fast reading and writing, quite compact file. So why not moving the old configuration zipped files on a special SQLite database?
You will need a SQLite editor to change the configuration, but I think the direct configuration it's an advanced task and the advanced user should be able to modify a data even if it stored on a DB.

What do you think about it?

Message from Dawid

Mon, 01 Jun 2020 03:07:38 GMT

Hi,
just wondering, if it is possible to config or disable saving xml settings to ZIP???
Thanks

Message from ineedh3lp

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:09:09 GMT

Yeah, that's a good idea. Or maybe include a .ini file in the Config folder in which interested users can make changes, like forcing zip/xml settings, debugging, etc. That way SyMenu can read the special settings from the ini file and not rely on the existence of files with certain names.
edited by ineedh3lp on 4/16/2012

Message from Gianluca

Mon, 16 Apr 2012 10:04:26 GMT

Hi guys.

Since some time I'm thinking about a new layer of options.

Currently SyMenu has a "core options layer" (SyMenuConfig.zip) that contains the customization you can set on Advanced - Options menu and an "items options layer" (SyMenuItem.zip) that contains the configuration for every SyItems.

There are some occasion in which I would like to have a third layer for particular reasons.
Think about a Firefox safe mode to understand what I mean.
For example in the past I needed this further layer to activate debug (in debug mode SyMenu writes a log of its activities). Today if I want to activate the debug mode I have to recompile SyMenu and to use this different version. What a great thing if the third layer could be use to activate and deactivate the debug mode, or to force SyMenu to maintain its files unzipped.

I thought that the third configuration layer could be based on the presence of some particular files inside the config folder.

For example if I want to maintain my config file unzipped I have to add an empty file called NOZIP.
If I want to activate the debug mode I have to add a file called DEBUG.
When I want to deactivate this particular mode I have to delete the correspondent file.
We can call them "Configuration flag files".
Every configuration flag file could be documented in the manual and will be available only for expert users.
This system is extensible with new idea and with new "alternative execution mode".

What do you think about that?

Message from PoWi

Sun, 15 Apr 2012 10:18:49 GMT

I like speed. So Gianluca I will always vote for speed!
btw, you're doing a great job with SyMenu!!!!!

Message from ineedh3lp

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 18:06:10 GMT

JC wrote:

I believe that if Gianluca does something with this, his time would be best well used by creating an import/export function for "SyMenuItem".

Import/Export is not needed as it is merely backing up or replacing the configuration files (or the entire folder). My suggestion still gives everyone the possibility to use zip, it just also gives everyone the alternative possibility to use xml. I do not need an export/import command, I need to be able to remotely edit the xml file in place.

Message from JC

Sat, 14 Apr 2012 17:37:43 GMT

ineedh3lp wrote:

Yes, I have hundreds configured in SyMenu.

I have tried leaving just the SyMenuItem.xml file in the Config folder, but SyMenu ignores it and creates a new SyMenuItem.zip with no items. Would be great if you could program the application to read either zip or xml (with priority set on one of them). That way people who like the speed of zip can use zip and those who need the benefit of direct editing can keep it in xml.

Of course, it is not hard to unzip, edit and rezip, the issue is that I'm doing it quite often, and I rely on some utilities I created to automatically change the SyMenu configuration. Also, having SyMenu on a SSD or RAM Disk doesn't pose a reading speed issue : D

@ineedh3lp,

I believe that if Gianluca does something with this, his time would be best well used by creating an import/export function for "SyMenuItem".

That way it can always be at the speed of a Zip file. You can have a way of getting menu items in & out. And everyone can have a way of doing the same thing. It seems like a better progression to me ... even if you have to do things a little different, it is better for all.

Justin

Message from ineedh3lp

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:38:36 GMT

Yes, I have hundreds configured in SyMenu.

I have tried leaving just the SyMenuItem.xml file in the Config folder, but SyMenu ignores it and creates a new SyMenuItem.zip with no items. Would be great if you could program the application to read either zip or xml (with priority set on one of them). That way people who like the speed of zip can use zip and those who need the benefit of direct editing can keep it in xml.

Of course, it is not hard to unzip, edit and rezip, the issue is that I'm doing it quite often, and I rely on some utilities I created to automatically change the SyMenu configuration. Also, having SyMenu on a SSD or RAM Disk doesn't pose a reading speed issue : D

Message from Gianluca

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 19:06:33 GMT

If I understand well you have a lot of programs configured in SyMenu and, in this situation, if you have the item configuration file unzipped SyMenu will load slower.
One year ago the configuration files were unzipped and people told me that there was the speed problem. Now the loading speed is quite good so I fear that you'll have to unzip the file for a direct editing.
Well, don't tell me that it is an heavy task

Message from ineedh3lp

Fri, 13 Apr 2012 18:31:39 GMT

Hello,

is it possible not to keep SyMenuItem.xml in an archive? Sometimes I find it very easy to edit the config file directly, or even automatically with some custom utilities. Having it in a zip file makes things harder as I have to unzip it first, edit it and then zip it back again.

Thnak you!